Hello and welcome back to Podnews Weekly. I'm joined today by Kevin Brown. Kevin and I met at the London podcast show briefly. Kevin is the chief content officer of Afripods. Kevin Hello, how are you? Sam I am doing amazing. It is an honor to speak with you, man. I had the privilege of seeing your presentation at Podcast Show London. You did amazing. You piqued all of our interest, man, and we're excited about the amazing things that you're doing in the industry. Oh, that's very kind. Thank you. But let's focus on you. First of all. What is AFF reports? Tell me more. Absolutely. So Afropop is a Pan-African podcast hosting and distribution platform focused on the African creator with the goal of creating the largest library of African stories on the planet. And how long has it been going? Afropop has been around since 2017. I've been working with the company or at the company since 2021, so I'm about three, three years into some change here. you've got an American accent. You were based out in the US. So what's the biggest difference you can see between podcasting over in the US and podcasts in Africa? yes. I'm African-American from California. The biggest difference that I see in the industry, these are podcasting in Africa is in its infancy. I think it's podcasting. America circa 2015, 2016, like still early days. You have some very avant garde or, you know, anime, some podcasters who are leading the pack. But the industry as a whole hasn't caught on yet. So I think there's a lot of opportunity for the industry to become sustainable and also to become a big pillar of media here on the continent for sure. And in terms of audience size, I mean, what are we looking at, a couple million? Couple hundred thousand? I mean, what's the audience size to think for podcasting in Africa? that becomes very interesting because the data is not so well represented currently, but we are definitely talking about the millions in terms of listen, there is probably 100,000 in terms of creators. But again, what we are seeing is the trend like and I think the next 1010 to 20 years, Africa will be the youngest continent in the world. And so you have this youth who are creative in the creative economy is growing in all different 54 countries. And so when you're seeing that there's going to be more creators and there's going to be more podcasters, and even just with sharing and the awareness of the medium, we're seeing an uptick in creators and we're also seeing some really interesting behaviors. Africa has the tendency to leapfrog and to innovate in ways differently than you might see in the West. And so, like we're seeing podcasters sell out live events in ways that we didn't see so early in the West. And so there's opportunities for guys and gals and creators to innovate and do things differently than what we've seen before. And that's actually really exciting. that is the opportunity. You can see what's been done and then not replicate it, but actually innovate for yourselves. how do you see monetization of podcasting within the African market? Sure. In Africa podcast Market, we've seen some traditional ways of advertising with just regular show sponsorship or underwriting and things like that. But we've also see that guys who are willing to donate. And then again, the live event space is something that is happening. We're seeing podcasters actually go on tour and some of them are being sponsored by airlines or by gas companies and things like that to go out and spread the message. So those are some of the ways in which we've seen it and even us as a platform, we've actively going out and pitching to advertising networks and agencies in order for them to understand the opportunity and the brilliance and resilience and retention of podcasting so that they can get in on this amazing medium where these creators have an active, captivated audience. Nice. Now, one of the unique things are free podcasts, though I looked on your website is they have a feature called Broadcast to podcast. What is that? Sure. P2P So what we understood here at Afropop is and this was my initiative, so something I'm very proud of is that we understood that radio was king in Africa and across multiple countries. And so what we did is we created a technology that allows broadcasters to take their one time use content in 10 minutes or more to use and then be able to increase their revenue streams by making their content evergreen. And so what broadcast a podcast does is the catch is the live stream records it into the creator dashboard. We also have an audio editor in the Afropop dashboard, and so the creator or the publisher can go in and actually edit their episode and then click publish all in one place. So we created this all in one solution. So BTP is something that we're proud of. We have over 160 radio stations, over eight different countries on our platform. I like that. As we were talking off air, my previous guys on my own radio station, we were doing that with a company called Woosh cos I really excited to see you doing that. What else is on the roadmap then for Africans? Where do you see yourselves going and growing? Absolutely. Thank you for asking that question. So one of the big things for us at Afropop is to make sure that creators take up as much space as possible and get paid for the work in which they're doing. So something that we're really focused on tackling right now is payouts. So you may or may not be aware of this, but a challenge that's taking place on the continent right now is being able to pay out different creators in different markets. And so we're really working to solve for that so that our creators can be paid and that we have some API aspects of our platform that we are really looking forward to implementing and being able to innovate with. I think my experience is one that's unique because I went from being talent to being on the business side of production and now being on the tech side. So when we're in our strategic meetings and we're planning our roadmaps, being able to see things from these three different perspectives helps us to have a very holistic approach to how we want to execute and be of service for the creators. And one of the other things that I think that we do really well is we are very involved with the community of podcasters across the continent of Africa. we're definitely going to continue to build the community of African podcasters, both in North Africa, sub-Saharan, as well as throughout the diaspora and Southern Africa. And so by building in that community and essentially having a village, I think we'll see more innovative things throughout our road map. And another thing that we do, again, going back to community, is that we make sure to ask our creators and our users what it is that they need and what they want from a platform. So we're always trying to make sure that we're making something that serves the African creator on the ground and throughout the diaspora by building what it is that they need. So it's a for us by us type of platform and model Interesting events in the diaspora. I mean, I know when I was talking to Gothamist and from hip hop about the Indian diaspora, which is quite extensive, showing the African diaspora must be fairly extensive. So how much of the audience do you believe comes from outside of your media, African continental audience? And what do you think it is? Is it 10%, 20%? When do you think it applies? Right now. To be honest with you, I would be being irresponsible if I spoke to an exact number. But what I can say is that those who are living outside of their home countries definitely want to hear the news and want to hear the vernacular and the latest slang and things like that that are happening at home. So there is an engaging audience that is not on the continent, that is still tapped in and really consuming local content. And it's actually really cool because one of the other things that we really promote at Afropop is like, we know that the majority of podcasts in the world are in English, etc., etc. but there is a huge rise of vernacular native language. Podcasts and creators are becoming more and more comfortable with being able to to tap in and have these conversations in their language. Right? Because I think what becomes interesting too, is that, number one, the majority of people who live in Africa do not live in the major metropolitan cities. And so if you're speaking English, then, you know, a lot of those people who don't live in a major metropolitan cities may not be able to understand what it is that you're saying. And so if that's the case, then that means you're missing out on an entirely big audience. So we have these micro-influencers and micro podcasters who have these huge followings and their shows are their music is not in English. And so we have to acknowledge that and encourage the creation, right? And the spreading of these positive and innovative messages and timely messages as well. Right. Because these messages are keeping up with what's happening in today's day. the rise of vernacular has been amazing and continues to be something that we're in all of and that we encourage as a platform and as people. Right, Because we are people working at a platform to serve the African creator. you and I have been talking offline about working together on some of the podcasting to the AU staff and some of the micropayments stuff. So I'm very excited is are looking at radio, looking at events. So there's a lot to come from. Hopefully another follow up conversation, Catherine, that we will have as an ongoing one about how our free parts can work with that. But if somebody wanted to get hold of our free podcast today, where would they go? Afropop dot Africa. So that's a F or iPod is Africa. And they were at pirates on all platforms. And then if you're looking for me in particular, I'm on LinkedIn. Kevin Y As in Yellow Brown. And then also on our social media platforms. Kevin y Brown So I look forward to connecting and continuing the conversation. Always. The thing that I love about the podcast industry. Sam And even about meeting you, having conversations with James and so many other people is that our industry actually is authentic. Genuine and approachable, it's amazing to be able to just talk to people, ask questions. And like when we were at the podcast show, I literally ask Ross Adams, CEO of Akash, big time Guy. I asked him some questions about leadership on his experience and how he's been able to navigate things and I mean that type of access or being able to walk up to someone and be approachable. These are not things that in every industry you can do, you know? And I think the other thing is that we are not a a cutthroat industry. I think that we're more communal. And I really just appreciate that. And I appreciate you as well for having me here. Kevin, thank you so much for your time. I look forward to our longer chats. Thank you so much, sir.