Kim: 0:12

Hi, I'm Kim Fox, and I teach at the American University in Cairo. I'm a professor of practice and, yeah, teaching, podcasting, radio, audio courses.

James: 0:23

And you call yourself the podcast professor. Wow. How did you get that name?

Kim: 0:28

Self-appointed. Like, you can't wait for someone to give you a title. Like, take advantage of the situation. But it was just something, you know, you can change your name on Twitter or just kind of put it out there, like let people know This is the thing that I like to do. I do very well. I teach podcast and I do academic research on podcasting. And I also have a podcast.

James: 0:47

And you're in Cairo. How did that come about?

Kim: 0:49

I don't have a sexy story. Like I saw a job posting and they were looking for someone to teach radio production. The job posting was in the Chronicle of Higher Education, so it is a very known place of looking for jobs, good jobs. I did a little bit of research and I said, Well, I want to give it a try. I said, It's like the lottery. You got to be in it to win it. And if I can get the job, then I can decide if I want to keep it or if I want to say no, I'm going to pass. But I did decide to take it. I negotiated out of a long term contract and took a nine month contract because we were doing video interviews back in 2008. So this is really pre zoom days and that's kind of how I got into it.

James: 1:30

And you came from a background of what radio and TV?

Kim: 1:34

Mostly radio. I worked in college radio, but our college radio was an NPR affiliate, so it was a proper radio station w0ub in Athens, Ohio. But I also worked at WOSU in Columbus, Ohio. That was the one that let me get away. I was working there and when I got the job offer in Cairo, I said, Hey, why don't you all give me an unpaid leave to go and explore this other thing? And they said, No. So then I thought, right then I thought, Well, this is not really a dilemma, is it? I said, Yeah, I'm out deuces. And so, yeah, that was that was it. That leap of faith. Like, I have no idea what this other job is like, but I'm going to give it a try because the one that I have is not quite working out.

James: 2:22

And so what am I talking to you today?

Kim: 2:25

Well, yeah, I'm in Brisbane visiting and like, who's in Brisbane? I'm like, Oh, James Quinlan is here. Really? And I did. I went and looked at your Twitter bio like, Where is he in Australia? This is a big place. And yeah, he was here for everyone told me it would be better to fly into Brisbane, had a conference at the Gold Coast so took that you know what, 3090 minute ride or two hour ride up to the Gold Coast for the conference for the International Communication Association. But then we had a podcast studies roundtable think tank here in Brisbane at Griffith University, and then we toured some community radio stations. Just a lot of fun, a lot of good people from this part of the world mostly. So I spent a lot of time, you know, in the in the U.S. or dealing with folks from the UK in Europe. So it was nice to come here and really pick up on a different community who are interested in the same things that I'm interested in.

James: 3:19

So what's the podcast landscape like in Egypt and that part of the world? Is it very different to the podcast landscape here or in the US?

Kim: 3:29

I think it is. It's really hard to nail down actually, because Egypt is a really trendy kind of market, meaning people will say, I'm listening to your podcast or your podcast is popular, but then after a couple of months or a year, they will fall off as listeners, which will impact, of course, the person who's doing the production. What I'm noticing is a lot of comedians are doing very well, which is kind of a global trend, is as well. There's a new company out called the Pot Casts Production, and they're really nice people. They're amazing and they're getting a lot of funding. And so and they do live shows and of course they do the podcast. They have a podcast space. So I think they're going to be the ones to watch out for because they got initially they had seed money from from within Cairo, but now they have some seed money from Saudi. So I think that's going to be able to elevate them to do a little bit more in the space.

James: 4:25

And are they doing mostly audio or is there quite a lot of video in your world these days?

Kim: 4:30

They're definitely doing video, but the guy that I talked to with the company, Islam, he was saying because I took my students over to do a field trip to talk to them and he's saying like we're an audio first company. So they always release their audio first and then they'll do the video, which I think is a smart move in terms of trying to build that listenership first on this on this end, and they can see the numbers. So what is it doing? What is this particular episode doing in terms of the numbers when it's audio that's released first before the video comes out? So, yeah, some people are going down that road of a video. It's hard to say that. What is that going to be a trend? Is that what everyone is going to want or feel the need to do? Because you know, from a heart of podcasting, it's like we don't really need video and that's an added element, more labour to do that part of it. So we'll see.

James: 5:23

And how is it in terms of is is the money in the industry. I'm wondering whether the advertising market is, you know, is as developed in your your part of the world as well.

Kim: 5:36

Oh, it's definitely developed. I mean, and I know this because I teach in a department of Journalism and Mass Comm, and we have two majors and most of them are in the integrated marketing communication major, so that your advertising PR, that is where everyone wants to be and that market is really, really huge in Cairo and in Egypt. But it's a matter of getting those audiences to then again pay. So you have first of all, you've got to think where are you getting your data? So as a as a podcaster, where are you getting your data to let this potential advertiser know? This is why it's tricky, and I think sponsorships might have a little bit better of a run because you could still say, Well, you can listen to my podcast and you can kind of understand my demo. I'm trying to reach women who are 18 to 34 or whatever this as opposed to saying, Oh, and I have numbers to show that because if you're new, you might not have the data to back that up. So I think a sponsorship might help on a smaller level. I for me, I Egypt is just going with whatever works for you. A lot of people are doing Passion podcast, so they're not necessarily in it for the advertising, but they have some sort of knowledge to share or just different kinds of interest.

James: 6:54

Now you run a event in Cairo every year. The last one was what I want to say, March. Yeah. So how did that go?

Kim: 7:03

It went really well. We had lots of Nasser as our keynote speaker. It was just so much fun to have him in town and he came to campus to talk to the students. Of course, he had a great keynote speech at Pod Fest Cairo, and we got a chance to go around to the pyramids and hang out. And Jasmine Bayoumi was also one of our speakers, and she came in from Berlin. So it was just nice to have lots of from Radiolab and Jasmine, who was one that she's my former student. So it's like, Wow, I had her in my first semester there, you see, as I was teaching in Egypt. So to see that she's doing so many really amazing things in the podcasting space was it was really nice to have those two not just for Pod Fest, but I always make sure that the keynote speakers come to campus and meet the students as well and get a chance to see what we do in that community. So that was really nice.

James: 7:52

So how many people were there last year?

Kim: 7:54

We usually get around 50 to 60 pod fests. Cairo is not a profit event and I usually do it by myself and sometimes I get busier than usual. So we usually get a nice small community of folks who come through, lots of regulars who've been to everyone, everyone, lots of newbies who are just trying to figure out, Hey, how is this thing done? Where is my community, that kind of thing. So it's been really a nice event to have on an annual basis. So like I said, we've done five years, including the one year online during COVID. The other four have been face to face. So it's a nice event to do.

James: 8:32

And tell me about your students. Finally, are your students are they wanting to get into the radio sector or are they wanting to get into podcasting? How do they see both of those Media is radio for the old, old folk, and they're not really very interested in it or how does it work?

Kim: 8:48

We have a commercial radio station. I remember listening to them when I first got to Cairo. It's called Nile FM and I'm like, Is that a cool name or what? It's like Nyla FM and they're very popular. And so, you know, you think about a C, h, r station, the C, our contemporary hit radio in the U.S. Our students are listening heavily. So when I thought like, yeah, radio's is like, No, they know this station and they listen to that station a lot. Now that is one of the few private stations in Cairo. So yeah, Are they listening to these other government stations that are like, No, they're probably not. So there's that. And then it's just a matter of what are you listening to and where are you getting your music and where are you sharing knowledge and things like that. So some of them I've had quite a few who've gone on to do really well in audio, which is amazing. But some moots works for South out of Jordan. She does really well over there as a producer with that team. Yeah, I'm probably forgetting about many of them, but a lot of them are doing really good work. Oh, I have Dina, Dina, Saladin. She just got a job, I want to say, with Audible in in Berlin, and somebody else just got a new job. And I was just like, wow, they're they're doing amazing things. So it's nice to know, like it started back when and helping them cultivate their stories and and see the passion in in radio and audio.

James: 10:09

So where can we go to find out more about both podcasts? Cairo but also the AUC?

Kim: 10:13

Oh, just follow me on on that platform, the former Twitter, the X

James: 10:19

And what's your handle on X?

Kim: 10:20

Kim Fox W OSU There's a story behind that.

James: 10:24

To Kim, thank you so much for your time.

Kim: 10:27

Thank you.