Sam Sethi: 0:12

Hello and welcome back to Pot Newsweekly. I'm joined by a very good friend of the show. His name is Ross Adams. Ross, Hello, how are you?

Ross Adams: 0:19

Hey, Sam. Good to be here. Thank you.

Sam Sethi: 0:21

Now, look, you've been busy getting the checkbook out. A cool $7.8 million It is. You've bought a company called One Day Media Network, and you've formed a new division called ACOSS Creative Studio. So let's start off with what is Acast Creative Studios and why did you buy One Day Media?

Ross Adams: 0:41

This is a really exciting acquisition for us. You came to our London opening of the ACORN Studios, which have video and audio capabilities this year. We've been very intentional about focusing on America, expanding here. I think we talked also about things like omni channel opportunities and how the larger briefs are coming in from brands, and we need to start thinking about how we properly produce and handle that content. And so, you know, we've been friends with Wonder Media for a long time and always amazed at the high quality stuff they produce. And of course, we could start our own production probably get it wrong over three years and we'd be nowhere where they are. So I think for us it makes sense that we acquired a company that did this. Culturally, it matches so well and then I think from the work they've done, it speaks for itself. You know, you think about the productions they do when it comes to original content and the high quality they produce and the name they have in market. It's really important for us that we have a proper stamp of approval if we're going to put stuff out there. And I think the branded content they're producing and the opportunities we see and we normally farm that out because we don't have those skill sets internally.

Sam Sethi: 1:47

So Ross, where do you see this going? Is it going to be internationalisation of branded podcasts? Is it just us only? But how do you see this developing?

Ross Adams: 1:56

We are a global international company and I think that we have the studio capabilities in pretty much every market we've got feet on the ground in the US is a core focus for us. So I think this is a very intentional US focused acquisition. But the strategic side and learning from how we produce content, how we scale that there's definite applications we're going to start to do globally. And you know, someone who understands exactly what we're trying to do and how we scale that every market is got a nuance, but I think we can learn a huge amount which we can apply to most markets. Yes.

Sam Sethi: 2:29

Talking about markets, you've recently just grown your team in Holland with Martin Garrets. You partnered with companies in China and Japan earlier in the year, and you've done that in France and other territories. Is that the route for you? Is it partnership first before FT on Street?

Ross Adams: 2:46

Yeah, I think, you know, we would look at the signals of podcasting and at different stages and different markets. Netherlands is a really crucial market when it comes to Europe. So if you look from an advertising agency standpoint, you have the big five, they talk about, which is UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy. And that's what a lot of brands want to buy those markets, but actually quickly swap out Spain, Italy for Netherlands, a lot of the European and global brands position themselves in the Netherlands. So it's such a strategic market from an image perspective. And also we start to see the podcast market rapidly expand there and we sign the right kind of audiences and partners there. So it made sense that we hired Martin and put feet on the ground rather than kind of servicing it from a programmatic and international point of view from London.

Sam Sethi: 3:29

Now, we spoke to you earlier in the year, roughly around February was the ten year anniversary of ICOs. We looked back at what you guys had done. We talked about the London studio, the Q3 results were good. The CEO and have you had a chance to look back? What's 24 been for you?

Ross Adams: 3:46

We don't give ourselves a chance sometimes to look back. We really should take because we've had a very successful year. I think a big focus has been growing the US opportunity and really establish ourselves here and I think we've done that focusing on building a profitable business. You know, Q3 was our first full profitable quarter and we've been very clear to investors that we're focused on trying to deliver profits for the full year as well. Those results will come out, of course, in February next year, but it has been an interesting year. The ad market hasn't been incredibly buoyant everywhere. Some markets we see better signs than others in recovery signs, but in some markets have kind of recovered. But I do feel there are tailwinds now as we approach 2025. I think podcasting is going through a real moment this year and I think video podcasts have definitely been put on the map is a real opportunity in that space. And I think for Acast and the opening of our studios, we have to react where audiences are and where creators are going. And so yeah, video's going to be an interesting part of the kind of omni channel opportunity for next year for us. So in kind of summary, very proud of the team in 2024. We have had a huge amount of success in all departments and to finish the year off with an acquisition, is the cherry on the cake or is the sweet side? The onion on the Salmon.

Sam Sethi: 5:00

Show that has a very astute meaning there Now, are you still bullish on air? You were in February. Are you still bullish that air is going to be part of the mix?

Ross Adams: 5:11

Definitely. I think, you know, we really think about air and its involvement in content creation and kind of a framework around that. But I think how it helps creators is insanely important. We've got to be very cautious with it still because there's still a lot of unknowns, but I'm still very bullish about air and I think how we're applying it as well to our ad technology. Our point to our data strategy is becoming really, really important and enabling us to move in a lot quicker way. So yeah, we're still very bullish about air and it's.

Sam Sethi: 5:41

Now earlier in the year or I think January you were blocking YouTube from taking RSS ingestion. Is that still the case? Are you and YouTube made up?

Ross Adams: 5:50

I mean, we see of course huge growth in opportunity with YouTube. I think we could look at our monetization model and what's fair for our creators and how that operates. So most likely I'm going to give you any more than that. We all can be focused on video as a big part of 2025.

Sam Sethi: 6:06

Do you also see live video or live events in any of your mix? Because again, Spotify look like they're going to get into live events. We see now much more podcasting in real life events happening and also online events live. Do you see that as a costs? Next thing you're going to be doing?

Ross Adams: 6:26

I think it's a really interesting area, and especially if you look at the omnichannel opportunity and where our creators going live, you know, has always played a part in podcast. But livestreaming is another area that I think is really interesting. I think as traditional TV audiences drop, I think as you look at streaming video sites from prime to Peacock, the amount of ads on them, you heard Daniel EK talk about ad fatigue. I do think there is an opportunity where audiences are everywhere and live streaming is a really interesting proposition for podcasting, so it's definitely something that interests us for sure.

Sam Sethi: 7:00

And one of the interesting things we are looking at and all waiting for is the announcement from Spotify as to how much they're going to pay people to watch videos ad free and again, would you see Acast getting into a subscription based payment model where you would remove ads from podcasts and start to pay people as creators from the subscription revenue that they generate?

Ross Adams: 7:26

I mean, we've kind of like dabbled in those areas. You look at the deal that we struck with Amazon a couple of years ago, which it was that sent to Amazon Prime and Amazon Music Unlimited customers. So we've kind of tested in those kind of areas. Again, we are creating first company and if the model works and we can remunerate creators in a better way, we'll always evolve to that way. Right now, with this Spotify proposition, I don't think anyone really knows and understands how it's going to work. There are very strict thresholds to meet, but again, if there's an opportunity for creators, it's something that we'll have to look at and see if it matches our business strategy.

Sam Sethi: 8:01

Ross Adams, thank you so much. Congratulations on 2024. You had a great year. Looking forward to what you do in 25. Congratulations on the acquisition. If somebody wants to come along, look at the London studios. What's the best way if they want to know more about ICOs, where did they go?

Ross Adams: 8:16

Yeah, I think, you know, of course, going to Stockholm and getting in touch with this. It's really on the website. I think. Obviously if you're creative and wanting to get in touch with ICOs London, I think you can email. He'll have you given the email address out but some ICOs dot com.

Sam Sethi: 8:30

Excellent Ross have a great Christmas if I don't see you before and a wonderful new year. Enjoy it and I'm sure we'll catch up in 2025.

Ross Adams: 8:38

Likewise. Happy holidays. Thanks.

Sam Sethi: 8:40

We've heard from Ross Adams about the acquisition of Wonder Media Network. Let's hear from the CEO herself, Shira Atkins. Hello. How are you?

Shira Atkinson: 8:49

I'm great. So good to be here, Sam.

Sam Sethi: 8:51

Well, look, that's a happy Christmas for you in the family household acquisition time. Let's talk about, first of all, how old is one, the media network.

Shira Atkinson: 9:01

So we started the company about six and a half years ago, and I co-founded it with a dear friend of mine from college, Jenny Kaplan, who is the CEO. I'm the CEO and we've built this business together, bootstrapped it, and have about 25 employees now.

Sam Sethi: 9:17

Very nice now. Was there a cost knocking on the door or were you stalking Ross in various New York cafes? How did this meeting come about?

Shira Atkinson: 9:26

Very organically and naturally, in the course of regular business as founders, acquisition is always something that we think about. And we've certainly had conversations over the years and we actually were first connected with Greg and Veronica and got to know Ross subsequently. And of course we've known about a cast and have had some partnerships over the years, but we really just it felt like the right time for us and it felt like the perfect home. So I didn't let on that they were our total frontrunner. We of course, had some other conversations, but we really have felt from the beginning like this was a match made in heaven.

Sam Sethi: 10:07

Cool. Yeah. No, never let hold any negotiations. Of course, now you have zeros tend to drop off checks very fast. Branded podcasting. It's grown. We've got a company in the UK called Lower Street. Harry Morton has done very well. He's bought Pacific Content brand. So he's been very bullish that the market now corporates are beginning to wake up to this whole space. Is that what you've found as well, that you're not chasing the deals, chasing you now?

Shira Atkinson: 10:35

Yes, we still do a fair bit of chasing, but it does feel that brands increasingly need to think like media companies. And if they're going to think like media companies, they need to think omni channel. And there are use cases for audio that are not just bolt on to an existing strategy, but are genuinely the right approach for brands and executives who are really busy. Or maybe they're better on audio than they are on video, or there's a particular kind of story that just makes sense and audio. And I think marketers and corporate affairs people at even the world's largest companies are starting to understand this. And I'm so glad that there are other companies like Lower Street and Aja and Glamour. There's so many lovely people that are doing this work and I think it is totally a rising tide lifts all boats.

Sam Sethi: 11:27

Do you find that CEOs are trying to be the tail that wags the dog? Do they try and dictate to you how you're going to do this or do they defer to your expertise and let you run the show for them?

Shira Atkinson: 11:38

For the most part, there's deference to our expertise. We like when CEOs get involved and want to champion the work. But largely we are doing a lot of discovery and strategy work with brands to help them figure out why, audio, why now? What are the goals and how can we have all of that sort of ladder up to whatever the content is? And it's the thing that has slightly differentiated our work in the space is doing a lot of the consultative groundwork to ensure that the podcast is successful because as we all know, a very crowded space and it's hard for brands to break through because it's not the sexiest you'd rather listen to Case file or Gigli spot than the Pfizer podcast, but we've managed to, with Pfizer as an example, create content that is authentic for them. But also you want to listen to because it's good and it's finding the exact right audience.

Sam Sethi: 12:33

How long is a branded podcast? Does the CEO get one hour? Does he get half an hour? Does he get 5 minutes? What is a good length for a branded podcast from a corporate.

Shira Atkinson: 12:43

Though there's absolutely no one size fits all the use case that you were just describing with a CEO sort of delivering a message perhaps to their employees. We do that quite a bit. We've done that with companies like G.E., for example, where it's internally facing. So it's not for public consumption. And in some cases, that's actually it's better for a brand. They're getting their chops in audio with a very specific audience. We do have some understanding. We typically don't go above 20 minutes for any internally facing content that feels laborious for external. It totally depends. We've done narrative audio documentaries for brands, and we've also done more thought leadership. Similarly, we try to stay sort of in the 20 to 30 minute range for episodes, but we've certainly gone shorter and also longer. We let the sort of content dictate the length.

Sam Sethi: 13:33

And seemingly don't put advertising into the branded podcasting, and that would be a bit weird.

Shira Atkinson: 13:39

Well, so we have done it in a few cases, but not advertising as such. It's taking the principles of advertising and applying it in a strategic fashion. So we've done quite a bit of work with greenhouse software, the job platform, our platform and we made ads for them, for their partners. So they have like Checker, the background check company, for example, as a plug in in their system. And we made ads for this partner in exchange for promotion to their audience. So we will come up with strategies like that all the time. But for the most part, the content is an ad it shouldn't feel like an ad infomercial. Yes.

Sam Sethi: 14:21

Now, we talked to Ross briefly about how he sees air being used within a custom. You can see it within the data analytics and elements of that notebook that the AI chatty host that they are. Oh, people just go, Oh, we just chock a document into Michael. And that's the branded podcast done, isn't it? Is that some of the stupidity that you're hearing people just using that as the alternative?

Shira Atkinson: 14:46

We're not tending to speak to the kinds of brands that would do that. A lot of our clients are very large Fortune five hundreds, and for them there's also a lot of red tape and legal process and understanding the nuances of what happens in the content and also working with teams that care deeply about storytelling. I can be a helpful part of the process from a research perspective, but certainly not from a from a content perspective. There's not yet perhaps one day, but at the moment there's not yet the capability to meet the needs of these kinds of brands that take a lot of care and every single word that comes out.

Sam Sethi: 15:24

I can see why a cast is a great fit because of their international footprint. And I can see how brands are global and therefore working with you very much to increase their footprint as well. Are you going to get into internationalization through language as well? Are you going to stick to English only or do you look at, say, Chinese, Japanese, Dutch, French, German, Will you get into those markets as well?

Shira Atkinson: 15:48

Yes, definitely. We have actually produced some content already in other languages. It's something that we care a lot about. So excited about the potential with a quest to continue to do that. I know I mentioned Pfizer already. Pfizer is a global company. They have offices all over the world. They actually have some podcasts in Germany and in South America, and they're desperate for us to get involved in those markets as well. And we haven't yet fully have the capability to do so. So I'm really excited to do that.

Sam Sethi: 16:19

Sure. Can I just recommend that you take Christmas off, relax, and I think your time is going to be so busy, it's going to be ridiculously mad. You might be on a flight once or 20,000 times, I think. But can I just say congratulations as well for any entrepreneurs, CEO, S.R.O., to get their company from bootstrapping all the way through to sale at a massive round of applause from me. So well done to you.

Shira Atkinson: 16:45

Thank you so much. We're thrilled. And the best part about it is, as I know, Ross talks about it all the time as the culture and the people, and we take a lot of pride in our team and it's such a wonderful vibe and it just feels like it really fits. So we can't wait to see what the next chapter brings.